Work was crazy today (and will be tomorrow), so here are some quick links.
US Soccer officially announced the friendly against Belgium for May 29 in Cleveland. The US will be playing in Cleveland for only the second time ever for an official match. And the US is 1-3-0 all-time against Belgium.
While we are still waiting for an official announcement on the rumored friendly against Germany, now there are rumblings that there could be a third friendly during that May/June time. Add those three friendlies with three qualifiers in June and that might be a lot of games in a short period of time.
And the USMNT is ranked #33 in the latest FIFA world rankings, dropping one spot from last month.
Bruce Arena apparently doesn’t like dual-citizens on the national team.
According to this article (and this tweet), it looks like Germany’s U-21 coach wants him for the 2015 U-21 Euros (and he would be eligible). Basically I am not going to get myself worked up about Brooks.
Want to see Brek Shea in a Stoke City onesie? Why not.
According to Hoffenheim’s manager Marco Kurz, Fabian Johnson is unlikely to play this weekend. I think he will still get called in for the US.
Todd Marshall breaks down which Americans in Mexico have a good shot of being called in for the upcoming qualifiers.
Brian Sciaretta has a story/interview up with Mix Diskerud.
And finally, there will not be a Weekend Commentary Thread this weekend as the sites technical issues hopefully get resolved.
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Bruce Arena’s comments are shocking. USMNT would struggle to make it out of the Hex without it’s foreign born players. His comments are cute and all but he needs to face reality that the USMNT can’t afford to pass up on foreign born players. Not qualifying for a World Cup could loss all progress made in the last 20 years.
Plus the whole insult to all the Germans-American’s fathers. If an American man serves his country does his son not have the right to be called American?I hate to get dramatic and say Bruce Arena has lots all my respect, but he looks worse then Preston Zimmerman.
You play to win the game, and that involves playing the best players. Sports aren’t about fairness, it’s about winning.
I wouldn’t say that I am shocked about what Bruce Arena said, his ego is so big it is drawing in and asteroid that could collide with the earth and destroy the planet. I suppose, in all fairness, I would like to see the context/complete article before I rush to judge.(Well, more than I already have)
I would say this is a good reason to never consider him for the post as head coach ever again and/or never offer him a job in the USSF.(I either read or heard a suggestion, on a podcast, that it might be worth taking another look as the USMNT head coach if Klinsi doesn’t work out…I am assuming based on his coaching credits)
Bruce has had this opinion for some time too. As I remember it Bruce got pissy when Giuseppe Rossi turned him down for a USMNT call up and said that he would never chase a player. Most people look at Rossi as a turncoat, when it seemed likely he was turned away or at the very least his decision was made easier by Arena’s pomposity.
Gregory is right…American parent…make’s you and American whether or not you have ever been here is irrelevant.
I am not a huge Arena fan, BUT, I will attempt to play devil’s advocate.
I think what is at the heart of the issue here (not knowing in what context his remarks were said) is building a USMNT that has an ‘American’ identity. It’s about selling the game to the American people, not just to the hardcore ‘football’ fans here in the States.
In a vacuum, his comments can be seen as horribly jingoistic. In reality, I am a little concerned about the development of the next great American players who can take over for Donovan and Dempsey, when we are giving so many USMNT slots to Germans. Yes, I said Germans, not Americans. Because in every way we measure national identity, Jermaine Jones, Terrence Boyd, Fabian Johnson, Danny Williams, and Timothy Chandler are considered Germans. They just happen to have American fathers, which just happens to qualify them for the USMNT. But they are German players. Period. German bred and trained.
That said, I am excited by the prospect of Johnson and Chandler continuing to develop as the attacking fullbacks we so desperately need. But I think the casual American fan who only shows up during the World Cup will find it hard to relate to a USMNT that is half populated by players not born in this country. I remember 2 decades ago when the US went after almost any decent foreign player who had even the slightest hint of American eligibility because we had no choice, our players sucked!
But that is not quite the case anymore, and does anyone think it’s a good idea for Jermaine Jones to delay the development of of our young midfielders by taking away their playing time? Or worse, hamper the chances of a recovering Stu Holden to get back into the U.S. side? Should Terrence Boyd, who was playing in the 4th tier of German football a year ago when he was capped by Klinsman, get time over American born players like Bruin or Pontius who are more or less playing at or above the level of the Austrian Bundesliga?
Is Danny Williams, out of favor with his German club at the moment, justified in getting chosen over Dax McCarthy just because he plays in Germany? Could Klinsman himself be showing a cultural bias by favoring Germans over American born players? What else would explain his insistence at continually playing Danny Williams out wide even though it was horribly ineffective, before finally realizing he was a central D mid? And how many American players who can play wide were denied a chance because JK insisted on playing Williams out of position. Maybe Pontius would have already made his debut, maybe we wouldn’t have waited so long to see Josh Gatt, Maybe Joe Corona would be further along in his development if not for Klinsman’s fetish for German born players. How do you think Eric Lichaj feels about constantly being overlooked by JK for a (until recently) non-committal Timothy Chandler? And then have Chandler lay an absolute crap of a game in his first official cap? Would Lichaj have been forgiven so easily if it was him who gave that performance?
Again, Bruce Arena used a sledgehammer approach when a chisel was needed, but we can’t pretend that he doesn’t at least have a point when it comes to developing American players and a team with an American identity. That’s the whole point of having a National side in the first place, isn’t it? Rooting for homegrown players who played in N.J. or Florida or Texas who had the dream of playing for their country? I would hope so.
Dirk I know you playing Devil’s Advocate and you make good points.
Just for the sake of a debate I would have to say the difference between the MLS and the Bundesliga is almost a $million difference per player. I can’t think of one legit “American” that is being robbed. The MLS is not a good league and to boot the best players in the MLS are foreign. Think of any MLS team and the best/highest paid players are foreign. Landon Donovan isn’t even the best player on his team.(debatable but Robbie Keane is paid more)
D.Williams played on the wing in the win vs Italy. He looked awful but JK got the win with him on the wing. Terrance Boyd was riding the bench for a team that commonly has the highest attendance in the World. JK was scared if Boyd somehow started for Dortmound, Germany would cap him. I agree with the Lichaj but doesn’t start.
I believe Pontius, McCarty and most American MLS stars would embarrass themselves at the International level. The MLS January cupcake camp is my evidence. The MLSers looked awful vs Canada.(A Canadian team that gave up 8 goals their last game) Remember the year before J.Jones looked like a freak when he played with the cupcake MLS players.
I think JK is being hampered in that he has to play some MLS players. I think Zusi looked embarrassing vs Honduras. D.Williams would have looked better on the wing then Zusi. (That’s just my opinion)
Bruce Arena could blame himself and other American coaches for not producing talent that can compete. I just think the CupCake camps are proof that the MLS players don’t belong.
Bruce arena is right and he is wrong.
the usmnt’s greatest asset now and in the future above all is the domestic player pool. The US player pool is huge, id say top 5 in size, and there is some real quality. Ussf’s great challenge is creating an environment where those youths can get into high quality programs and where they have opportunities to interact with professional teams from the US and abroad.
When the US wins the world cup, many years down the road, it will not be with 5 starting foreign-born players. It may be with 1 or 2. The US needs to develop their talent like brazil. Players need to leave to europe young and in droves.
The number of quality academies in the US right now is rising magnificently. In my home town, San Jose, we have academies who feed by Sunderland, Barcelona, Sporting CP, and the Earthquakes as well as De Anza Force. Off the top of my head I can think of Chelsea having one in Baltimore, PSG in New York, and Arsenal in LA along with those regions local MLS teams of course.
So there is progress. For every 12 year old who trains at the academy of light for a summer, there are thousands playing college soccer. Some of those players won’t get into a professional system until age 22, which is wrong and a failure on the part of the American system.
Now… that being said
Jurgen Klinsmann, no matter what bruce arena or I think of him, has a job to do, and most of the time that job entails putting out the very best 11 players he has available. if that means his starting eleven were all born in Bielefeld than so be it. The great majority of foreign born players who put on the jersey have a deep, loyal connection with the US. They’re not all timmy chandler.
MLS is getting better, but it is garbage compared to europe. The fact that we can still have a guy like schellas hyndman coaching a team is an absolute joke. I can sympathize with brek shea because 99% of high school coaches and about 85% of college coaches don’t know jack shit about developing talent/managing/coaching/SOCCER!
Arena is right, we shouldn’t have any foreign born players starting. But unfortunately american soccer isn’t where it should be, and shoulds have no place in soccer. The fact of the matter is at this point we are better with some krauts in our team, and the best players ought to play.
Danill I completely agree with what you say. I just want to poit out that San Jose and the Pacific region’s attitude on soccer is in a different league then most of America.
The USSF’s biggest problem is that America’s best athletes don’t play soccer. For a lot of reasons mostly being not many kids correlate making millions and playing soccer. Until that correlation is created top athletes will choose other sports. Not many kids choose soccer as the sport that will elevate their families lives.
You make strawman arguments about the MLS being shit and Keane being better than Donovan but don’t address the point I was trying to make, that our American team has a bunch of players that are culturally German. You don’t address the merits of that and whether Arena has a point. And say what you want about Arena but he got a team of American born players to the quarters of the WC, but we seem to be going in the opposite direction under JK, we aren’t developing American born talent, just going for an easy fix with foreigners, some of whom have played some pretty
Let’s examine your first “point”, that the MLS is shit and it’s best players are foreign. Wow, really?
Do you realize that some of the best players in the EPL are foreign? Does that make it a shit league too? Imagine that, you are claiming because the MLS is attracting foreign talent to come and play that that is the thing that makes it crap. Hmmm, yeah. Logic says the opposite is true. And the Americans like Pontius, Zusi and McCarty who are having an impact are doing so against improved competition.
And that part about Keane being paid more than Donovan is irrelevant, and likely untrue. It also tells me that you don’t watch MLS at all (why would you waste time on such a shit league right?) Donovan was L.A.’s best player the last 2 seasons and absolutely key to their winning back to back titles. I know this because I watched. If he never scored a goal all season his vision and passing would make him worth it alone.
2: <<<>>
And this indicates what to you? It tells me that they won IN SPITE OF Danny Williams playing. It is NOT in any way an endorsement of Williams. And here is the truth about Danny Williams. He clearly is a player with great potential, but most writers who observe the games very closely will tell you DW has had exactly ONE truly good game in a USMNT uniform. He has been awful more often that average. Yet he gets called time and time again without question.
3: <<>>
Your evidence would be thrown out of court to anyone with any kind of nuanced thinking. You CANNOT judge those players you are judging harshly by their performance in a meaningless friendly with players playing with each other for the first time against a Canada team that did not come to play an attacking or positive game. And you certainly cannot judge a Graham Zusi playing with what is considered the USMNT B team. You can judge him when he plays with Dempsey and Bradley and Jones and see how well he plays in meaningful games with the A team. I think the jury is still out on Zusi but he has done good things, and certainly compares favorably with both Jones and Williams of late.
And speaking of MLS players, if it weren’t for the play of Eddie Johnson, Graham Zusi and Alan Gordon, we would have lost to Antigua & Barbuda.
4: <<>>>
This is simply misleading. Boyd was playing for the reserve team of both Hertha Berlin and Borussia Dortmund the last few years. This was the equivalent of playing in Germany’s 4th tier, which is probably equal to the English Conference. Boyd NEVER made a first team appearance for Dortmund, I think he made the bench once.
He was NEVER EVER even close to getting a call up to Germany’s NT. No chance whatsoever. This is Germany we are talking about, not Moldavia. They don’t cap 3rd and 4th division players when they have Thomas Muller, Mario Gomez, Marco Reus, Toni Kroos, Mesut Özil, Mario Goetz and Lukas Podolski playing advanced attacking roles. The only competition for Boyd would have been from Germany’s Under 21 team.
5: <<>>>
Williams does not belong out wide. You are making snap judgments based on a bad US game in which the defense came undone. Zusi was not the problem against Honduras.
The crux of the issue is whether Klinsman’s focus on German-born American-eligible players is hampering the development of U.S. born players. I believe that is what Arena was probably trying to get at. You responded by just calling the MLS crap. I think you are wrong about that, but you are welcome to your opinion.
Ah yes… this is true. Here lots of kids do make that correlation but still not enough and I can see how things are different in the rest of the country. *sigh* I watch a lot more nfl and nhl on tv than I do mls *guilt*
Belgium in Cleveland? Cleveland? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
I like the friendly debate.
I watch all DC United games. And Pontius and McCarty aren’t that good. DC United’s best player was a teenager, now it’s a 34 year old Canadian. Think about last offseason MLS transfers all but Shea were foreigners. Honestly McCarty was garabage for DC United, he couldn’t cross the ball to the opposite side of the field like most MLS players. Pontius has a nice shot and can dribble fast going forward and that’s about it. Pontius would be embarrassed at the highest level. He is scared to take MLS defenders on from the side.
When Zusi plays with the A squad all he can do is cross the ball. He loses possesion, is slow and weak. He can’t take any defenders off the dribble, remember when Demspey screamed at him for putting a garabage cross in instead of a proper service. Next time Zusi plays with the Millionares notice he loses possesion and gets bullied. J.Jones gets paid almost 20x more then Zusi for a reason.
You shouldn’t compare the MLS and EPL. And yes the best players in the MLS are foreign. Might be a couple teams that are expections but most teams best players are foreign. The differnce with the EPL is that it’s the best League in the world, I don’t understand the comparison.
American MLS talent doesn’t attract foreigners, money and living in America does. If you google MLS salaries it comes up. Robbie Keane makes makes $1 million more the Landon. And the MLS is a crappy league I hope you know that. I really don’t think that’s debatable. I don’t believe any Germans are holding MLS players back. MLS players should earn transfers and earn their spots. If you think McCarty is being held back cuz of Jones and Williams I think you don’t have a concept of the game. Jonathan Spector can make an argument, but MLS fans don’t want to admit that England’s second division is on a different level then the MLS.
Did you watch Honduras, notice when J.Jones went off the field the US had zero possesion, J.Jones and the other Germans play at a different tempo, they make the other team play at that tempo. Zusi does not. I think Williams on the wing is great for Bunker Ball. Notice Edu is not being held back, he makes over 10x times as much as Zusi cuz he can also at at a higher tempo. I don’t think you set a lineup based on a players salary but there’s a reason why players want to play in Europe. I noticed last cupcake friendly Morales can play at a higher tempo.
Earnie Stewart was on that 2002 squad. I don’t care where a player grows up, I care about winning. I think you can judge MLS players during the cupcake camp. I could judge that J.Jones was by far the best player in the game and that he must play his club ball on a much higher level.
I wrote this from my phone is it will read like garbage.
Dirk that was all just Devils Advocate talk.
Found this interesting. I know money spent doesn’t equal talent, but I think a correlation can be made.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2055140/Premier-League-wages-FIVE-times-Championship.html
http://liviubird.com/2012/05/26/mls-player-salary-breakdown-charts-and-tables/
England’s 3rd Division average player salary is higher then the MLS.
I love the MLS, and hate to bash it, but until it starts paying the players competitive wages it will be a sub-par league.
In regards to comparing the MLS to the EPL, I certainly wasn’t doing that. I was applying your own flawed logic about why the MLS sucks, according to you.
You said this, “The MLS is not a good league and to boot the best players in the MLS are foreign.” Why else would you mention the best players were foreign unless it was to backup your claim that MLS is bad?
The EPL sucks because the best players are foreign.
Major League baseball sucks because the best players are Dominican.
This makes as much sense as your statement about MLS. The MLS DOES NOT suck because the best players are foreign, instead that is the thing that has made the league A LOT better than it was 10 years ago. Is it a Top 6 or even top 10 league? No, but it’s been around not even 20 years. They are slowly and effective building their brand. I find it odd that you admit to watching something that you seem to loathe.
If you want to say the MLS sucks because the players suck, go right ahead, just avoid logical fallacies.
You remind me a little of those snobby Brits I run into on English message boards who are so shocked that Geoff Cameron or Stuart Holden can stand up let alone play and compete. There were very few people who thought Geoff Cameron was the best CB/RB/CDM in MLS. We knew he was talented but certainly not the best. Yet, why if playing in such a shit league has he transitioned so easily to the EPL? He has been a starter from day one, at a new position at RB no less. He was making less at Houston than he is now at Stoke, but it doesn’t mean less quality.
You also try and make the point that most of the transfers are foreign players, which is a poor reflection of the league. Roger Espinoza had a huge game for Wigan against Stoke just weeks into his tenure, helping to assist on 2 goals in a 2-2 draw. If anything, this tells me that the jump from the MLS to EPL is not as tough as some would believe.
You buy into the meme of players salary = quality, Yet Espinoza transitioned from “lowly” MLS to top flight England looking like he belongs. He couldn’t do that unless MLS was a talented and competitive league, regardless of his place of birth.
The links you included don’t really help your case. The wage bills of teams like Wigan and Southampton pale in comparison to the Manchester and London clubs yet they play at the same level and even manage to occasionally take down a Top 6 team. Wigan had a run last year in which they beat several top teams in the stretch run, including Liverpool 1–2, 1–0 over Manchester United, Arsenal 1–2, 4–0 over Newcastle United.
All those teams have massive wage bills compared to Wigan yet Wigan is able to find quality players in “lesser” leagues that are still good enough for top flight football.
Read Soccernomics, it’s a great book about money and soccer, and it predicted (several years ago) that America would be a place where Europe would go to find quality players at a bargain rate. And that is starting to happen.
I agree the Championship is a good league, overall better than the Top Scandinavian leagues for sure. And they have many foreigners playing there as well. But it’s not worlds better than MLS, that’s just nonsense.
This statement made me chuckle. “American MLS talent doesn’t attract foreigners, money and living in America does.” Do you realize that those things go hand in hand? Talents begats money, money begats more talent, etc, etc, and on and on. Robby Keane has no interest in playing in a Mickey Mouse league, which MLS was not too long ago. He came for the money, and the LA lifestyle, and the fact that he is playing with one of the more talented teams in MLS. Just a fact.
You really seem impressed with Jermaine Jones. He had moments of brilliance I agree, he scored a crackin goal for Schalke recently in Champions league and the assist he had to Dempsey against Honduras was awesome but…he hasn’t done this consistently for US and his constant yellows make him a liability. And he seemingly has little chemistry with Bradley, and often seems unsure of his role (attack?, hold? destroyer?), partly Klinsman fault no doubt, but to say he was the difference between winning and losing against Honduras, I ain’t buying it.
And this last quote of yours gets back to the original debate. You said, “MLS players should earn transfers and earn their spots. If you think McCarty is being held back cuz of Jones and Williams I think you don’t have a concept of the game.”
I have a concept and I know what I speak of and it’s all wrapped up in your statement here.
Ask yourself what is preventing Dax McCarty, or Will Bruin, or Chris Pontius, or and young American player who has an impact in the MLS, from going to Europe? Do you honestly think it is lack of interest because the league sucks so bad? Nope, it’s because many of these players are not eligible to play in Europe, and why is that?
Unless they have a familial connection to a particular European country, particularly the TOP 6 or 7 leagues, they can’t get a work permit. And even when they cam get one for a lesser league in Denmark, there are still limits to how many foreigners can play in those leagues and usually the wages aren’t that great.
The BEST way to get that permit is to MAKE NATIONAL TEAM APPEARANCES. That is how GEOFF CAMERON was able to get onto Stoke’s team, because he has started to get CAPS for the USMNT and JK went to bat for him at the work permit hearing. It was not ever a sure thing Cameron would have got that permit, I believe Klinsman had to testify that he was committed to Geoff continuing to appear for the U.S in the future, because at the time, Cameron DID NOT have the right % of games played to qualify.
This is the crux of what we are talking about. American players being left off the USMNT in favor of German-born American-eligible players will never have the CAPS necessary to make the permanent move to Europe. This is an undeniable fact that you have not addressed. Sure go ahead and say Zusi and Pontius can’t challenge defenders off the dribble therefore they are no good (think about this….. NEITHER CAN DEMPSEY or DONOVAN, hasn’t hurt them any).
Now I don’t have a problem with any of these German born players on the USMNT if they are clearly better, but the simple truth is that they have not had a huge impact thus far and we are being denied seeing what Gatt, Mixx, Gyau, Corona, Bedoya and some of the MLS’ers could (or could not) do if given the chance.
Wow great discussion and so much to comment on.
@Gregory: you hit the nail on the head again
“Bruce Arena could blame himself and other American coaches for not producing talent that can compete.”
The main issue with the US development is that it has been based on the collegiate system for far too long that doesn’t produce players that could make an impact on any decent team in the major leagues around the world. Thankfully Klinsi has made that the cornerstone of his philosophy…to continue to develop more academies with better coaching at all levels.
Fact: more children under 16 are playing soccer then any other sport in this country.
Fact: professional soccer is not not nor is it likely to get more popular than: basketball, football or baseball.
Truth: We don’t need more players but rather better players and better coaches at every level.
@ Daniil I agree entirely with your post except with describing the players as Krauts. I am having a hard time wondering if you are a racist, going for the shock value or just an ass. You posting is articulate and insightful
so I don’t think you are an ass.
@Dirk:(I know you are being the Devil’s advocate) but I will answer the question to continue the dialogue. No the EPL is not a crappy league but there is an argument that the proliferation of foreign born players has seen a once powerful English side regress into something ordinary in comparison to the rest of the EU.
It isn’t Klinsi’s preference that is holding back the young American players. It is the lack of talent and solid competition. The MLS has come a long long way in 18 years but it is still not on par with the top 10 first leagues around the world and maybe only even with the top 2nd division leagues. That is not the MLS’s fault it simply takes time. Having said this the MLS is all, many of our national players have and has been instrumental as a feeder league for some of our best players.
If “Pontius, Zusi and McCarty” were that good then they would already be in Europe.(I imagine Zusi will go over the summer.) Klinsi’s true impact will not be felt for 10 years or more…when the academy systems are producing players with technical superiority and American grit.
As for the German national team not capping 4th tier players because they are so strong. Some of the best German players over the last 10 years are not German or are dual nationals. Miroslav Klose(born in Poland), Lukas Podolski(Born in Poland), Mario Gomez(dual citizen Spain),Mesut Özil(dual citizen, Turkey), Cacau(born in Brazil naturalized 2009). This coming from a country that is a true soccer culture.
My favorite of your points is the suggestion that Stu Holden is being held back from regaining his spot on the team. Actually I think if Holden was healthy right now and playing at the level he was prior to his injuries, Klinsi would replace Jones or even Donovan. Klisni loves Holden, he talks about him being the exact type of player the US should be producing. If it were me I would keep Jones out anyway and let Williams play in the center with Bradley.
Finally, Bruce Arena didn’t take all American born players and some of those players that were, learned the game over there.(Ernie Stewart(born in the Netherlands), Pablo Mastroeni(Born in Argentina),Carlos Llamosa (born in Columbia),Regis, David (born in France),Jeff Agoos(born in Switzerland) John O’Brien born in the states but developed in the Ajax Academy, Claudio Reyna Learned soccer from his father who went through the youth system and professional ranks in Argentina.
@ Dirk…while I was typing my reply I was unable to see your last post. Clearly you and I are on the same page for most of my previous post. I am sorry I misconstrued your Devil’s advocacy and what appears to be sarcastic wit for actually being myopic to the ills of the American game.
“The BEST way to get that permit is to MAKE NATIONAL TEAM APPEARANCES. That is how GEOFF CAMERON was able to get onto Stoke’s team, because he has started to get CAPS for the USMNT and JK went to bat for him at the work permit hearing. It was not ever a sure thing Cameron would have got that permit, I believe Klinsman had to testify that he was committed to Geoff continuing to appear for the U.S in the future, because at the time, Cameron DID NOT have the right % of games played to qualify.”
This being your point and maybe Arena’s point then yes I can see where your are both coming from and I would tend to agree with the concept with one clarifying point.
Klinsi roster choices only hurts those players without direct “familial connection to a particular European country” and who might actually be good enough for a call up.
But can we both agree that Preston Zimmerman has not been called up because he is not good enough and that is not Klinsi’s fault.
I’m not racist or an ass, I’m just a stupid teenager who listens to too much gangster rap. Ill be more PC in the future.
Todd T says:(I know you are being the Devil’s advocate) but I will answer the question to continue the dialogue. No the EPL is not a crappy league but there is an argument that the proliferation of foreign born players has seen a once powerful English side regress into something ordinary in comparison to the rest of the EU………
It’s interesting that you bring this up. The notion of a powerful English side is based on one World Cup win more than 45 years ago. They’ve never won the European championship, hardly ever came close. Their accomplishments pale next to Germany and Italy, hell even France has won more hardware. And it’s more or less ALWAYS been this way, check out England’s destruction in a home and away to Hungary in 1953-54 to see this.
I mentioned the book Soccernomics earlier and I’ll mention it again. The book broaches the subject of England and the notion that they under-perform on the International stage. The book is HEAVY on analytical data and was in fact partly inspired by Moneyball. And you know what the book concluded about England? Based on the socio-economic data (which is far too involved to get into here) and comparing this data to the rest of Europe, England in fact…..OVER-ACHIEVES. Yes. And I believe their conclusion because the case they made in the book was fascinating and convincing. In fact England is one of the bigger over-achievers in Europe, hard as that is to believe. They don’t win the big titles, but they consistently make the Quarters almost every time.
Regarding your other point about how the influx of foreigners into the English top flight has perhaps degraded English players from reaching their full potential, apparently the opposite is true, this also according to Soccernomics. Because now the BEST English players are playing against the best foreign players on a regular basis where before they would only face them in International competition.
The good English players are playing where they belong, in the Championship, while the Milners and Parkers and Walcotts are being tested against truly great Internationals in the Premiership. In other words, Rooney would not be the player he is if he was only playing against U.K. born players.
Regarding the 2002 U.S. World Cup team, you got me there. I didn’t realize there were so many American eligible foreign born players on that squad. And mind you, I’m totally not against this, if they are the best available players then by all means. I just think someone like Terrence Boyd, while a nice young player, should never get chosen ahead of Altidore, no matter how frustrating he can be at times. And I still think it’s strange that we’ve seen more of Boyd than say, Gatt or Pontius.
Anyway, nice discussion.
Dirk…great stuff. I will have to pickup that book it sounds great. Over achievers…it is amazing to me that they are not better…they have so many quality players.
Your point about playing with and against the best is well taken. I wish I could remember where I heard/read about the point I was trying to make. I think that is one of the reasons given when the FA enacted controls about the number on non EU players per team.
This isn’t were I read this but here is a excerpt of a Wikipedia page for the Premier League….
At the inception of the Premier League in 1992–93, just eleven players named in the starting line-ups for the first round of matches hailed from outside of the United Kingdom or Republic of Ireland.[108] By 2000–01, the number of foreign players participating in the Premier League was 36 per cent of the total. In the 2004–05 season the figure had increased to 45 per cent. On 26 December 1999, Chelsea became the first Premier League side to field an entirely foreign starting line-up,[109] and on 14 February 2005 Arsenal were the first to name a completely foreign 16-man squad for a match.[110] By 2009 the average Premier League team had an average of 13 foreign players in their side[111] with under 40% of the players in the Premier League being English.[112] The effect of foreign players on the England national football team has been the subject of a long-standing debate with some such as José Luis Astiazarán, president of Spain’s La Liga, suggesting that the high number of young foreign players is the reason behind the national side’s lack of success at international football tournaments.[112] Vicente del Bosque, the manager of the Spanish national team, disagrees stating that he “didn’t think it’s damaging for English football to have people from abroad.”[113]
In response to concerns that clubs were increasingly passing over young British players in favour of signing less-expensive foreign players, in 1999, the Home Office tightened its rules for granting work permits to players from countries outside of the European Union.[114] Currently a non-EU player applying for the permit must have played for his country in at least 75 per cent of its competitive ‘A’ team matches for which he was available for selection during the previous two years, and his country must have averaged at least 70th place in the official FIFA world rankings over the previous two years. If a player does not meet those criteria, the club wishing to sign him may appeal if they believe that he is a special talent and “able to contribute significantly to the development of the game at the top level in the UK.”[115]
Again, your point is well taken but I knew that I had heard about the debate…thank goodness for Google…and the internet.
@Daniil…no worries. I am a little sensitive to that particular slight because my wife is German and we have two children(boy 3 and a girl 1 1/2). I only mention this because they were born in this country but have dual citizenship.
If we move to Germany I wonder if Bruce Arena would get upset if they played for the German national team.(said jokingly.)
Honestly my fantasy would be to move to Germany and have the children become professional players. Sam(my son) and Sofie(named after German grandmother)signs with a local team in the first Bundesliga, buys their aging parents a nice home and become starters for the US national teams.
Or we just move to Germany to be closer to my wife’s family and my children grow up healthy and happy with the knowledge of two cultures.